Issue link: http://papercitymagazine.uberflip.com/i/488938
In this PaperCity exclusive, Marilyn Minter chats en studio with one of the prognosticators who launched her career: Contemporary Arts Museum Houston director Bill Arning, co-architect of the provocative artist's traveling retrospective that begins its four- stop, two-year national tour Friday, April 17, in Houston. FLASHBACK TO THE 1980S Bill Arning: Okay, Marilyn, I've been an early studio visitor for hundreds of artists over the years, and then I've given artists shows in different parts of my life, and there's always that fantasy of "One day I'll be curating your retrospective." So far, this is the first time it's actually happened. When we did that first show together at White Columns [1989], was there any sense that this was the start of a sort of multi-decade dance? Marilyn Minter: I remember after you left, I thought, 'Well, that was a real bust.' I can usually tell if there's some enthusiasm. And it was this huge disappointment because you were the notorious spotter of fresh talent. And then a week later you called me up and asked if I wanted to have a one-person show at White Columns, and you wanted to buy some work. I almost fell over. And then you told me … that you have to have a poker face, because artists get too invested in every single word you say. Bill: You were one of my educators, in terms of the actual politics of being a woman artist in that period. I had assumed, because my generation of art folks and museum folks coming up were so open to being centered around women, gay people and people of color, that this was what the art world was. And, I was coming out of the alternative space scene, where that was our focus. You were like, "Oh no, honey, when you walk into the Odeon as a woman artist …" MM: I think back in the '80s, the collectors were all men … They weren't used to feminism. They were mostly older gentlemen, and they all had mothers that didn't work. So the only painter that they knew that was female was probably Susan Rothenberg. And there were so many terrific artists. Joan Mitchell was just genius but was considered second-rate back in the '80s. It was our lot in life, and my theory then was just "I'm not going to go away. You're going to have to pay attention to me sooner or later." But you were in the alternative world, and White Columns was in an alternative world, and that's why I liked it. ON GAZING FORWARD Bill: Now you're getting to look at your work in a full retrospective mode. I mean, we're in your studio surrounded by 10 new paintings. You've got that dichotomy of being very focused on the now, and you're also having to look back at things that the general public has not seen. MM: I have no idea how the retrospective is going to be received, because it's all about stuff that's been in my closet forever. Bill: You were a known category. I mean, people saw the work. I think eventually, you'll be perceived as someone like Louise Bourgeois, who never stopped showing. There was a show every year in New York for her entire career, but she was just never brought into focus until later. MM: The art world loves old ladies and young bad boys, and you get to the old-lady age, and they'll resurrect you in a nanosecond. All of these artists that didn't have any careers at all are now showing at major galleries right now. They are dead or barely alive. Bill: Part of being able to survive the ups and downs is the vision … And looking back on the decades in the [exhibition catalog], there's this vision that begins with your earliest, when you were in your 20s, and then goes through these more schematic paintings … MM: That is my vision, that paradoxes the norm. Working with glamour and images of popular culture, which can be despised because they're low culture … That's what I'm more interested in, rather than depicting or telling people what to think, even about high-culture [such as] fashion. You get a lot of pleasure out of looking at these glamorous images, and yet you have shame because you even want to look … And then you also know that you will never look like that. Nobody ever looks that good; it doesn't exist. And so I'm trying to make that feeling in my work. What it feels like to look. Bill: You have to have retrospectives. You have to have a certain specificity about the size, and about the presence in the room, and the fact that looking at the paintings here, when I walk the 30 feet between here and that painting, it changes. It has like, six layers. MM: That's what I'm interested in working in, between all of the different meanings and trying to show them all at once. Bill: In case anyone thinks that they don't need to travel to get to see the whole thing … MM: Oh, yes, the whole idea of my paintings is how juicy they are. They're really well-painted … I mean, that's maybe not very modest of me, but I spend so much energy into making them just as luscious as I can, with all of this translucency. I don't work with oil paint; I work with enamel … and I work in these abstract areas until the whole thing comes together, and you can only experience it live. The Minter-Arning tête-à-tête continues at papercitymag.com. "I THINK, EVENTUALLY, YOU'LL BE PERCEIVED AS SOMEONE LIKE LOUISE BOURGEOIS." Marilyn Minter's Coral Ridge Towers (Mom Smoking), 1969 Marilyn Minter's Blade Runner, 2010 Marilyn Minter's Coral Ridge Towers (Mom Making Up), 1969 "MARILYN MINTER: PRETTY/DIRTY" RETROSPECTIVE WHEN: OPENING NIGHT FRIDAY, APRIL 17, 6:30 TO 9 PM WHERE: CONTEMPORARY ARTS MUSEUM HOUSTON NOTE: MEDIA SPONSOR PAPERCITY; EXHIBITION ON VIEW APRIL 18 – AUGUST 2, 2015 CONTACT: CAMH.ORG Marilyn Minter and Bill Arning at the artist's studio in NYC, December 2014 COURTESY THE ARTIST, SALON 94, NYC AND REGEN PROJECTS, L.A. PHOTOGRAPHY BENJAMIN FREDRICKSON. EDITED BY CATHERINE D. ANSPON. PROVOCATEUR Marilyn Minter's Wangechi Gold 4, 2009 COLLECTION BETH RUDIN DEWOODY COURTESY THE ARTIST, SALON 94, NYC AND REGEN PROJECTS, L.A. COLLECTION BETH RUDIN DEWOODY — BILL ARNING